Stephen Milks is an attorney with the Ingham County Public Defender's Office and prior to that ran his own solo practice for several years. A few weeks ago he talked to Max and me about how the ICPD has made adjustments to handle the pandemic and had some advice for other criminal defense practitioners.
Transcript
John: Hello, this is John Swift.
Max: And this is Max Matthies.
John: We're two of the staff attorneys at ICLE. We're talking to other Michigan attorneys about how the COVID-19 pandemic is impacting them and their clients.
Max: We thought it might be helpful to share how our colleagues and their firms are responding to the COVID crisis and provide some insight on how you might do the same.
Stephen: Hello, my name is Stephen Milks. I'm a criminal defense attorney working at the Ingham County Public Defender's Office. I'm strictly a criminal defense attorney, as I said, working in the area, but I also had my own law practice for about seven or eight years or so, practicing out of the Okemos area and Ingham County. And I'm here to talk today to these two wonderful gentlemen about this little pandemic I've heard something about.
John: It’s kind of affecting everybody, I guess. Well, Stephen, thank you very much for talking to us today.
Max: Thank you, sir.
Stephen: Thanks for having me. Thank you.
John: I think you're the only person we're talking to that is actually at a public defender's office. How is your office handling the Stay at Home order. What’s been the biggest impact?
Stephen: The biggest thing right now is that we are following as much as we can the Stay at Home orders. However, we've been deemed essential employees. For the most part or almost entirely, we have been working from home when we can. Obviously, there are situations where we have to meet with some clients or are going to go into work to get some stuff done. But for the most part, we are largely a paperless office, which has really accommodated this pandemic and the Stay at Home order, so to speak.
Max: What about court appearances?
Stephen: Court appearances at this time are really for in-custody individuals for arraignments, especially if someone gets arrested and they have to go before a magistrate or something. If they are charged with a felony, we will go in and we will actually have them arraigned. This is largely being done through Polycom or through videoconferences—which has kind of been the norm. We've been doing that even before this pandemic in most cases. But we would have walk-ins, people who would just kind of walk in because they got a ticket or something small and they actually need to start the whole process going. Those have ceased. That has been the biggest change right now.
John: Do you have any cases that are actually going to proceed to trial?
Stephen: Right now everything has been put on pause. There was one trial that I did have upcoming, which actually starts today, so I'm assuming that has been canceled. Lord, I hope so! No, it's for the circuit courts and a lot of things have been canceled. They are hearing certain bond arguments to get people released from the jail to kind of relieve the burden a little bit that the jail is having. But when everything first started happening, there was some talk to keep jury trials going—it was still kind of carry on. Keep calm and carry on. But just the overwhelming concern and the rapidity at which this virus is going around, no one wanted to risk that. It was just a nightmare logistically to figure out how do you keep twelve jurors six feet apart from each other? It’s almost like where’s Waldo in the courtroom. So yes, there's really been very little in the way of hearings. I probably had court two or three times, which has still been videoconferencing, and that's only for preliminary examinations, which we can do under the court rules, and under the current order, we could do those via video. So the client doesn't have to be in a room and we can really minimize any sort of contact.
John: Talking about your clients, how are they responding? I imagine a lot of them must want to get their cases resolved. How are they handling all these delays?
Stephen: That's one thing that has been really new for me—experiencing this through my clients’ eyes. Many people I think are, honestly, they're understanding that this is a different time. This is something where we all have this sort of underlying fear. Which is sort of ironic in the sense that, as we're all kind of driven to our homes and isolated, it's this unifying quality that we all have at this point. So, the public, people charged with crimes, are incredibly understanding. Even my clients who are incarcerated, they're in a situation where if the virus gets in there, it poses a completely different risk in that enclosed environment like that and a mini-outbreak within a jail is just terrifying to think of. So there is this misunderstanding where yes, they want to get a move on, get things done. But as I told one or two clients that I've actually seen—or, I'm sorry, have had hearings with—over this time, our understanding that if I feel like you're in jeopardy or your safety is an issue here, you know, I'm not going to have you come in, or I'm going direct you to an adjournment. And they're very understanding, considering the circumstances. It's just a bizarre feeling because it's a different interaction than I've had with clients, especially my incarcerated clients.
John: We've heard about jails trying to keep people out here, get people out of custody. Have you seen that motivation by the county thus far, trying to keep people out of custody?
Stephen: I don't want to define it as an exodus. That's a little too biblical. But there has been a huge kind of ability to get people out. In fact, I know Governor Whitmer just put out a new executive order today that addresses that very issue with MDOC [the Michigan Department of Corrections] jails, county jails, as well as juvenile detention centers where, yeah, look, let's relax some things to get people out. Either bonding out or even having some sentences sort of terminated so to speak. Putting them out on probation. You probably can't see it, I'm doing the bunny ears with my hands right now when I say “probation.” But there's definitely been some changes there. Because jail staff also has to deal and they have to go out every day and interact with people despite having this no-contact order. And so every time there's contact or something, it just exposes people. So there has been a huge change with that. And I think a lot of people are being released early from county jails. I can't speak to what MDOC is doing with our prison system. I’m not exactly sure.
Max: So shifting gears a little bit, ICLE is getting a lot of inquiries from solo and small firms trying to figure out how to stay in business, how to keep their doors open. What are your thoughts about how to continue a practice during these times?
Stephen: I think it's a new problem, a very difficult problem. And my heart really goes out to a lot of my friends who are out there, trying to run their own practice. Right now, if you do any sort of criminal defense, even if there is a public defender's office, try to reach out. I know they still exist, some counties that don't have a public defender's office, so they're still looking to get people on lists. I don't know how much work there is. But just offering services. If there's a time that you can go do arraignments or be in court when needed on certain things, or even just research. Something along those lines, it might help pay some bills here and there. But if nothing else, if you've got some resources to fall back on a little bit, or even just trying to keep the business afloat and everything, now can be a great time to just update all your information. I've had all sorts of templates and different sign-in sheets when I had a potential new client come in, or even research that I've collected over the years compiling that, getting some organization there and kind of shifting or changing maybe some of your formatted sheets or information templates, anything along those lines. You've gotten up, there's not much to do right now that you're at home. It could be a great time to kind of assess. You've got some down time, forced down time, so to speak, right? All that stuff you say you're going to do and you never actually get to do. All the housecleaning and everything like that.
John: That is very good advice. We will probably wrap it up here, but I really appreciate your time, Stephen. And best of luck getting through everything—take care yourself—and I’m sure our community really appreciates you giving your advice.
Stephen: Absolutely. Thanks for calling. Thanks for thinking about me and good luck with everything, guys.
Max: Thank you, Stephen.